Turkish War of Independence was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Turkish War of Independence is within the scope of WikiProject Armenia, an attempt to improve and better organize information in articles related or pertaining to Armenia and Armenians. If you would like to contribute or collaborate, you could edit the article attached to this page or visit the project page for further information.ArmeniaWikipedia:WikiProject ArmeniaTemplate:WikiProject ArmeniaArmenian articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the history of Europe on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.European historyWikipedia:WikiProject European historyTemplate:WikiProject European historyEuropean history articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles
"Wikipedia'da büyük skandal. Türk Kurtuluş Savaşı'na iftira attılar". Yeniçağ. May 4, 2021. Retrieved May 4, 2021. Dünyanın en ünlü çevrimiçi ansiklopedisi Wikipedia'nın İngilizce sürümünde "Türk Kurtuluş Savaşı" maddesine "etnik temizlik" ifadesi eklendi. Söz konusu ifadenin değiştirilmesine rağmen sayfaya tekrar eklenerek maddenin korumaya alındığı ortaya çıktı.
There are many references to 1M expelled Greeks here and other places. I wonder how did anyone reach to these figures. Is there a reliable source of population counts in May 1919 in what is now Turkiye? How did they get expelled specifically, dates, places and numbers for example. It is also known that many minorities have been leaving, and more escaping the war torn country for better prospects in the West. In fact, such migrations were taking place continuously since 1900 or so. It seems all this population movement is lumped under "expelled" category. Which seems misleading.
At this point just say turks are the bad guys and the rest of them are good guys. Taking armenian death numbers from an armenian communist counsil member is not objective , saying 15000+ deaths in turkish side is so funny while writing 35000 thousand villages were burned to ground , making up numbers when it comes to entente but decraising incredibly when it comes to turkish side. 14:50, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
This article, which is supposed to be an article about the independence struggle of the Turkish people and the founding of their own country from the partition by foreign imperialist forces, is full of biased and anti-Turkish sources about how the independence war was wrong and shouldn’t have happened. Not only that, but the frequent use of “genocides” to describe the events that happened during the War of Independence is also highly opinionated and biased.
Don’t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong about describing the war crimes committed by the Turkish forces, but the fact that this article lacks even a single positive source about Turkish independence already showed the opinions of the biased editors about Turkey; the same for criticizing those historians who are sympathetic to the official Turkish opinion of the war like McCarthy and forbids them to have any input in the article, but allowing the source of a biased neoconservative historian Rummel, who has often been criticized for his gross exaggeration of numbers of excess deaths under anti-western regimes to be considered valid.
If anything, the whole article needs to be completely rewritten to include the sources from historians who have perspectives from both sides of the war. LeonChrisfield (talk) 10:19, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comments; we can do little about a general grievance. If there are specific passages that you find problematic, or the sources offered are not being accurately summarized, please detail the issues on this page.
"Controlled by anti-Turkish editors" is a serious accusation requiring serious evidence.
The general academic and scholarly consensus(and increasingly governments) is that the term "genocide" is appropriate for the Armenian genocide. Opposition to this term(including by the Turkish government who expends significant effort to promote their view internationally, teach it to their citizens, and criminalizes it because it is integral to the founding of the modern Turkish state) is discussed at Armenian genocide denial. 331dot (talk) 15:46, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not an Armenian/Greek genocide denialist. I just believe this page should be more balanced with sources reflecting Turkish perspectives on the history. As for the claim of the page being controlled by anti-Turkish editors, I meant I believe the editors who primarily writes the page only selects sources from historians who have a grievance against Turkey, instead of trying to be objective. LeonChrisfield (talk) 18:28, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If there are indeed anti-Turkish passages in the article please point them out in the discussion section so we can have an article agreeable to all contributors. This article is intended to tell the Turkish perspective of the war, while the Greco-Turkish War intended to tell the Greek side. I have reservations with this status quo, Wikipedia articles must strive to concisely tell the story of the conflict from every belligerents' perspective. In a conflict as large and complex as the Turkish War of Independence, this is a difficult challenge. That said, I put effort to tell the Turkish perspective by incorporating information from sources like Ryan Gingeras' The Last Days of the Ottoman Empire and Andrew Mango's biography of Atatürk.
If some facts or key pieces of information about the conflict with respect to the Turks is missing, extended confirmed contributors are more than welcome to incorporate information. I personally would welcome any DM for sources on this topic, and we can work out ways to incorporate them in this article (Turkish or English works with me). Benlittlewiki (talk) 22:37, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see that you are a Turkish person. I am sure you are more familiar with the Turkish history than me, and so probably have access to relevant sources to counter the excessively biased parts of the article. I found this sentence quite misleading and dubious: "The Turkish Nationalist Movement carried out massacres and deportations to eliminate native Christian populations—a continuation of the Armenian genocide and other ethnic cleansing operations during World War I. Following these campaigns of ethnic cleansing, the historic Christian presence in Anatolia was destroyed, in large part, and the Muslim demographic had increased from 80% to 98%." There was a mutually agreed population exchange between Greece and Turkey, which 1.6 million Greeks left Turkey for Greece. The population exchange contributed to a significant decline of the Christian population. But the sentence is twisted into making people believe that the TNM (The Turkish Nationalist Movement) genocided them. LeonChrisfield (talk) 12:13, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even if we take the stats by Rummel, which are highly questionable due to his neoconservative biases and having a history of overestimating the deaths caused by anti-western regimes, 260k Greek civilians were murdered by Turkish army in the war. Therefore, most Greeks left Turkey as part of the population exchange, not genocided by the TNM. LeonChrisfield (talk) 12:15, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would recommend creating a new discussion topic over whether to add a note to that number in the infobox indicating that the source is controversial or not good enough. Consensus would have to be established for this in the thread. You can help your case by finding another calculation who's source has better methodology. Benlittlewiki (talk) 02:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, some actors of the Turkish national movement engaged well documented acts of ethnic cleansing and/or genocide in the war before the population exchange, this is talked about in the article, though it could be expanded upon, especially Topal Osman's operations in the Pontus region. Benlittlewiki (talk) 02:11, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I stated above, it is difficult to respond to a general grievance. Please detail the specific passages that are problematic. The general academic and scholarly consensus(and increasingly governments) is that the term "genocide" is appropriate for the Armenian genocide. Opposition to this term(including by the Turkish government who expends significant effort to promote their view internationally, teach it to their citizens, and criminalizes it because it is integral to the founding of the modern Turkish state) is discussed at Armenian genocide denial. That includes the belief of some that it was actually the Armenians trying to commit genocide against the Turks. 331dot (talk) 06:16, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
30.000 buildings + 250 villages burnt to ground by Greeks but only 15.000 Turk civilians killed?
Benlittlewiki, unionist is a descriptive noun for a class of people that belong to or are active in a union movement. As such, it is not a proper noun and should not be capitalised. Arguing to capitalise because is refers to such people from a particular movement falls to MOS:SIGNIFCAPS. Cinderella157 (talk) 22:02, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In this context, Unionist is not a descriptive noun, it is a proper noun; it specifically describes someone affiliated with the Committee of Union and Progress. It is similar to capitalizing "Republican: when talking about members of the Republican Party in the United States instead of lowercase republicans which refers to a general political movement for a republican form of government. Therefore, it must be capitalized. Benlittlewiki (talk) 00:14, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
.svg)
