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Wikipedia talk:Wikiproject Hallucinogens, Entheogens, and Related Topics/categorization

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Categories needing to be organized/worked out

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Discussion on current categories

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Deliriants are also dissociatives (as are muscimol and ibotenic acid), the current categorization does not make this apparent. Likewise, hallucinogenic tryptamines, hallucinogenic tryptamine carriers, hallucinogenic phenethylamines and hallucinogenic phenethylamine carriers are all "psychedelics" for lack of a better term (in the context of a non-dissociative hallucinogen). The cannabis category should also likely be cannabinoid, as there are plenty of them... but maybe more correct as hallucinogenic cannabinoids if we're going to focus in that area. --Thoric 22:53, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I don't like the focus on "cannabinoids" as one of the things this project is taking into account is cultural, etc factors; "cannabis" and the usage of it should be part of this. cannabinoids is a category under cannabis . . . I don't really know how i feel about that and tobacco; i think its important that they are covered, as nicotine and tobacco is a very potent deliriant/dissociative in very high doses, and cannabis is somewhat hallucinogenic and is used as an entheogen . . . But they are such large topics in themselves, stuff i personally don't think we should concern ourselves with. so we have to figure something out with that, how far we are going to reach in those areas.
as for the other two things, how do we work this in? Dissociatives and deliriants are considered to be different things; if it was up to me, they'd be one class, but i don't get to decide how people describe things. so how do you think we should make this apparent? having deliriants as a sub category of dissociative? combining them into one category, ala entactogens and empathogens? two subcategories of a larger subcategory? considering 5-meo-dmt, ecstacy and lsd all to be "psychedelics" doesn't, imo, seem much different from having an umbrella term to cover pcp as well as datura.
I think classifying hallucinogenic tryptamines, etc as psychedelics is a good idea; would this be a category in between hallucinogens and the halluninogenic tryptamines etc categories? I don't want to get rid of any of those categories, as they were sort of created to avoid stepping on other people's toes- plants aren't chemicals and shouldn't be classed as such, serotonin is not a hallucinogen, etc. but its certainly a categegorization we should take into account . . . --Heah 00:08, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nicotine is not a real deliriant, as its deliriant effects are the result of its toxicity. Deliriants are different than the other dissociatives, but they are still dissociatives. I have a sort of organizational chart on my talk page Chart, but here's a rough breakdown:

HALLUCINOGENS

  • Psychedelics
    • Cannabis
      • Cannabinoids
        • THC
        • CBD
        • CBN
        • CBG
    • Phenethylamines
      • Empathogens
        • MDMA
        • MDA
        • MDEA
      • Mescaline
    • Tryptamines
      • LSD
      • Psilocybin
      • DMT
    • (Igobaine)
  • Dissociatives
    • Anesthetics
      • Ketamine
      • PCP
      • DXM
      • Nitrous Oxide
    • Kappa opioid receptor agonists
      • Salvinorin-A
      • Salvinorin-C
    • Cholinergics
      • Ibotenic Acid
      • Muscimol
    • Anticholinergics
      • Atropine
      • Scopolamine

--Thoric 14:35, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Actually, i definitely came across your chart at some point, don't remember exactly how . . . Your organization of the dissociatives looks excellent, if there are no objections i'll put that into effect. I'm also fine with putting the lysergamides into the tryptamines category; the lysergamides category was already there, and i was curious about just that. I think the "hallucinogenic" should remain in front of "tryptamines" as they aren't all hallucinogenic, and the "carrier" categories need to be worked in there- perhaps just under tryptamines or phenethylamines? as for phenethylamines, would it be proper to put them all into "empathogens" except for mescaline? I'm personally sort of unclear on the usage of that term, what makes something an empathogen as opposed to just a hallucinogen, which is why i haven't done much with the category. --Heah 02:36, 5 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

two cat pages

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so somehow i created two pages; one of them (this one) was made with a lower case "p" in WikiProject. so i've fixed the links on the project page and i'm going to post the talk page over there; i can't move it as the proper article already exists. does someone know how to go about merging the history, at least for the talk page? --Heah 00:15, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

nevermind, i'm going to put the correct page up for a speedy delete and then move this there. --Heah 02:12, 5 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Rename Template:Psilocybe mushrooms

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The template Template:Psilocybe mushrooms do not only list the Psilocybe genus but also several other psilocybe mushrooms: Conocybe, Galerina, Gymnopilus, Inocybe, ,Mycena, Panaeolus, Pholiotina, Pholiotina. Also, I added muscimol mushrooms to the template, and started hallucinogenic mushroom, isoxazole mushroom and legal status of isoxazole mushrooms.

  • The template should therefore be renamed from "Template:Psilocybe mushrooms" to "Template:Hallucinogenic mushrooms" (that is already used in most articles) but a redirect page already occupy that name.
  • A new "Template:Psilocybe mushrooms" can be started if you want. If you do that, then please reuse a list of Psilocybe species (say "Template:Psilocybe mushrooms-list") in both "Template:Psilocybe mushrooms" and "Template:Hallucinogenic mushrooms". --Jilja (talk) 15:42, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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