Talk:March 25

This article was nominated for deletion on 12 November 2008. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Selected anniversaries for the "On this day" section of the Main Page

Please read the selected anniversaries guidelines before editing this box.

March 25: Bangladesh Genocide Remembrance Day

Enrico Fermi in 1943

1458 – Wars of the Roses: A formal reconciliation ceremony between the Lancastrians and Yorkists led to a brief period of peace.
1799 – War of the Second Coalition: In their second battle in seven days, the French Army of the Danube and Habsburg forces battled for control of the Hegau region.
1934 – Enrico Fermi (pictured) published his discovery of neutron-induced radioactivity, for which he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics.
1949 – The Soviet Union began mass deportations of more than 90,000 "undesirable" people from the Baltic states to Siberia.

Kō no Moronao (d. 1351)
Melita Norwood (b. 1912)
Marie-Alphonsine Danil Ghattas (d. 1927)
Gloria Steinem (b. 1934)

More anniversaries:

Untitled

Coxey's Army, the first significant American protest march - what about Shays' Rebellion? -- Zoe

Removed, as it doesn't sound like a major anniversary to me:

2003 - Breadmen's, a restaurant in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, receives a 95% cleanliness rating from the state inspector. Sjorford 14:53, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Annunciation

The date of the Annunciation of the BVM being on 25 March is ONLY EXCEPTED IN CATHOLICISM! Dionysus Exegius was not the first to say that 25 March was Christ's Conceptionday, Even if he was the first to choose the year. I think that the disclaimer should say "(traditional date in Catholicism)" since no other religion belives that Christ was concived that day, and it was not first suggested by Dionysus, but is part of Catholic tradition and was celebrated since Christmas was celebrated. StThomasMore 03:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Celebrated since Christmas was celebrated, eh? "The first authentic allusions to it [the Annunciation] are in a canon, of the council of Toledo (656), and another of the council of Constantinople "in Trullo" (692), forbidding the celebration of all festivals in Lent, excepting the Lord's day and the Feast of the Annunciation.". BTW, the Eastern Orthodox churches celebrate that date, too. Jim62sch 11:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, well, since it is a "traditonal date" I am moving it back to events. BTW, they may celebrate it on 25 March on the Julian calendar, but that is a different date on the Gregorian calendar. StThomasMore 17:42, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Of course it's a different date -- the whole purpose of the Gregorian Calendar was to fix the backward drift of the dates of the vernal equinox/winter solstice on the Julian Calendar (hence the proscription again 00 years being leap years unless divisible by 400). Nonetheless, Exiguus himself used the Julian calendar, the Gregorian not being devised for another 1000 years. Additionally, March 25 is an arbitrary, non-historical date anyway, so where it falls in relation to the vernal equinox is utterly irrelevant. Had we a lunar calendar like the Islamic Calender (the dates of which are retrogresive) these holidays would be celebrated in different seasons, occuring 4 days after the vernal equinox only once every 33 to 34 years.

In other words, who cares what calendar the Orthodox Church uses, it just doesn't matter. Jim62sch 21:04, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, so even if this date isnt for sure, it is TRADITIONAL! How about the decision that happens on the 25 December page weather Christ's Birthday goes in HnA or Births will take affect on this page too. If Christ's birth is allowed to go in births, then Christ's Annunication can go under events and His death can go under deaths. Does that sound good? StThomasMore 18:23, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Try a CITE before you start trying to apply slightly related, but different, decisions to this page. KillerChihuahua^?!? 18:26, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Are you asking me to find a cite that says Christ's Annuncaition is traditionally thought of as being on 25 March? StThomasMore 01:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm saying that's already covered under Holidays and observances/Liturgical feasts. KillerChihuahua^?!? 17:55, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Christ's Death Date

The traditional date of Christ's death is 25 March. A tradition among the Jews during the time of Christ was that the great prophets died on the date of their conception. Proof of this belief is found at the following Catholic Encyclopedia articles:

From "Easter"

In Gaul a number of bishops, wishing to escape the difficulties of the paschal computation, seem to have assigned Easter to a fixed date of the Roman calendar, celebrating the death of Christ on 25 March, His Resurrection on 27 March (Marinus Dumiensis in P.L., LXXII, 47-51), since already in the third century 25 March was considered the day of the Crucifixion (Computus Pseudocyprianus, ed. Lersch, Chronologie, II, 61)

From "Christmas"

The astronomical theory. Duchesne (Les origines du culte chrétien, Paris, 1902, 262 sqq.) advances the "astronomical" theory that, given 25 March as Christ's death-day [...a tradition old as Tertullian (Adv. Jud., 8)], the popular instinct, demanding an exact number of years in a Divine life, would place His conception on the same date, His birth 25 December. This theory is best supported by the fact that certain Montanists (Sozomen, Hist. Eccl., VII, 18) kept Easter on 6 April; both 25 December and 6 January are thus simultaneously explained. The reckoning, moreover, is wholly in keeping with the arguments based on number and astronomy and "convenience", then so popular. StThomasMore 01:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thus, given that you have so aptly proven that it is a made up date, it needs not be in the "Deaths" sections, where historicity is key, but rather in "Holidays and observances". Therefore, I am moving the date to "Holidays and observances", using your citations as being supportive of such a move. Jim62sch 11:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I put the words (Traditional date) next to it. I think that justifies the fact that it is in deaths. StThomasMore 17:42, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately you are incorrect. Please read the policies I linked to from your talk page. KillerChihuahua^?!? 18:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is crazy. I gave you evidence that His death-day has been traditionally rendered as being on 25 March. This is not going against the NPOV, etc. polocies.StThomasMore 18:23, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I assure you I am quite familiar with policies, and the one this is violating is WP:V; no self-references. You cannot use Wikipedia articles to support edits to other Wikipedia articles. Find a WP:CITE. KillerChihuahua^?!? 18:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Those quotes I provided in my first post under "Christ's Death Date" were from the Catholic Encyclopedia, as I stated, not from WP. StThomasMore 01:35, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Catholic Encyclopedia meets WP:RS guidelines for a source on Catholicism, not as a source for history. Feast of Annunciation would make the Observances section with cites from the CE. KillerChihuahua^?!? 09:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Annunciation in 2008

In 2008, the Feast of the Annunciation will take place on 31 March. How can we reflect this in the respective articles? Carolynparrishfan (talk) 20:13, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not familiar with this holiday. Can you point to a reference that says it will be March 31 in 2008? -- Mufka ^(u) ^(t) ^(c) 01:31, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The transfer is to avoid it falling in Easter Week. See here, as well as at Annunciation#Related dates. Carolynparrishfan (talk) 22:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since this is a one time thing, it wouldn't really go on March 25 or March 31. It might be ok to put it in the March article or the 2008 article. Also, this article doesn't say anything about March 31. For it to have staying power on any date article, it should be mentioned in an article. -- Mufka ^(u) ^(t) ^(c) 01:18, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re-reading what I typed, I don't know why I wrote it the way that I did. What I mean is that we'll want it to show up on the Main Page on the 31 rather than the 25. Carolynparrishfan (talk) 12:25, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it would show up on the main page either way. The 'On this day' section lists only events. This would be an observance, not an event. ... After two hours searching, going to the grocery store, and getting a haircut ... I found how the items for the 'On this day' section get selected. Check out this. That is where those events come from, but I still don't think this event will/should get listed there. -- Mufka ^(u) ^(t) ^(c) 16:30, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, today's main page notes that today is Zamenhof Day. And I've certainly seen other Christian festivals and saints' days so marked. Carolynparrishfan (talk) 01:10, 15 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're right. That is part of the Selected Anniversaries page that I referenced above. I was wrong when I said it only lists events because I didn't know it came from Selected Anniversaries.. -- Mufka ^(u) ^(t) ^(c) 06:28, 15 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

‘2010: Underground meeting’?

What underground meeting is this? Felicity4711 (talk) 03:19, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lead of the article

Do we need all of the information currently in the lead of the article? The Annunciation is at least partly covered in the Holidays and Observances section, and it seems to me the connection to the Fiscal year is for the most part specific to Commonwealth nations. If Adam's creation or the conception and crucifixion of Christ are actually "widely celebrated" they may belong in the H&O section, but not in the lead. As for the Divine Comedy part, that's a fictional event. I'm tempted to remove almost everything in the lead. Winston365 (talk) 04:50, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of birth entries

I've removed one globally celebrity from the birth dates. Some of them are not globally notable enough. It will not be removed too many and but a little bit if they non-universally notable Thank you Shiesmine (talk) 15:28, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Jack Stauber

OK: I took the note about the Jack Stauber album release, down: as far as I can tell, it not necessary notable.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Cuddy2977 (talk • contribs) 18:09, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Marie-Alphonsine Danil Ghattas

Marie-Alphonsine Danil Ghattas was canonized in 2015. Therefore the word 'blessed' should be removed. --2607:FEA8:D5DF:F3D9:AC99:D2B7:A37A:537A (talk) 16:00, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Venetian people day: BRD

An IP editor made a wp:bold edit to introduce this line to "Holidays and observances"

Venetian People Day (Veneto) ^[1]

I reverted it, giving as my reason that the event is not internationally notable, that it is restricted to one city in Italy.

To avoid a wp:edit war, policy WP:Bold, revert, discuss invites us to consider the case here and come to a consensus, rather that revert and counter-revert.

Some observations:

In their counter-revert, the IP editor says that
1. it is a regional (Veneto) event, not limited to the city of Venice.
2. other regional events are listed.
Google returns nothing useful for "Venetian people day", so it is not obviously WP:Notable worldwide. There are however quite a few returns for "Festa del Popolo Veneto", including a better citation if we decide it deserves a place.^[2]
IT.Wikipedia has its own rules but even so it seems relevant that neither "Festa del Popolo Veneto" site:it.wikipedia.org nor "Festa del Popolo del Veneto" site:it.wikipedia.org find anything. Not its own article, not even mentioned in any article in any way.

(1.1 is true if only because the legislative authority is the Veneto government, not the city. 1.2 is true, though whether it should be true is another question. Maybe some weeding is required, meanwhile see wp:other stuff exists.

So I invite the ip editor to demonstrate that the event is significant outside Italy. It doesn't have to be as well known as the Carnevale or the Venice Biennale. As party to the dispute, I leave it to others to judge the case on its merits. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:28, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As per WP:EVENTDOY all holidays and events need to have their own article to be notable enough to be included. Suonii180 (talk) 18:27, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Venetian People Day Law". Consiglio Regionale del Veneto.
^ "25 marzo Festa del Popolo Veneto" [25 March Festival of the People of the Veneto] (PDF) (in Italian). Regione del Veneto.

Annunciation as an observance

There already appear to be several debates about the Annunciation on this page which I don't wish to be involved in. However, one thing I do not understand is why the Feast of the Annunciation, celebrated on March 25 (at least in Western Christianity and maybe Eastern?), is not listed under #Holidays and observances. Regardless of the controversy over the conception, birth, and death of Jesus on this page, the feast celebrating the event is celebrated on this date and so should be included under "Christian feast days". I myself cannot enter it due to page restrictions. SwensonJ (talk) 00:56, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Seems reasonable to me. Done. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:02, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Venetian People Day Law". Consiglio Regionale del Veneto.

[2] "25 marzo Festa del Popolo Veneto" [25 March Festival of the People of the Veneto] (PDF) (in Italian). Regione del Veneto.

[1]

[2]