Talk:Teshub

Section

The Hurrian myth of Teshub's origin—he was conceived when the god Kumarbi bit off and swallowed his father Anu's genitals—is a likely inspiration for the story of Uranus, Cronus, and Zeus, which is recounted in Hesiod's Theogony. - Isn't it possible that they both derive from a common source, rather than that the Hurrian myth inspired the other? RickK 22:00, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

==I will tell you very important thing about Teshub. In Kurdish Teshup means "Axe". When I look at Teshup he is holding an axe. This is how he got his name. Teshub might be etnically Kurdish. Very interesting.

The hurrian god Teshub is also the god of luwians and hittities with names Tarhun as well.

Don't tell stories you liar. Never heard that Teshup means "axe" in Kurdish. "Axe" is "bevr". I doubt you are a Kurd. 176.199.184.166 (talk) 01:00, 1 May 2015 (UTC) Axe in Kurdish can be translated as Tesup or tevsup (At least in I my region in Southeast Anatolia, Adiyaman and Urfa province) and Bevr(bivr) is a smaller axe, the big axe is (tevr) in Kurdish. Even tevshup and teshup may be ekvivalent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.148.130.90 (talk) 00:04, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Identity?

I don't know what the inscription says but the deity venerated here certainly grasps a tall sheaf of grain in his left hand and a fruiting branch of the vine in his right: bread, beer and wine are not usually attributes of a 'storm god". --Wetman (talk) 03:47, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

On the contrary, Storm Gods were often associated with agriculture...207.237.208.153 (talk) 00:10, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

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Tuppi-Tessub

A variant form of his name is Tuppi-Tessub, the first element may perhaps be related to the Greek Typhon. Associated with Amurru, just as Typhon is associated with the land of the Arimoi (with metathesis of sounds similar with Typhon/Python). 2601:448:C300:EA60:64EF:7D30:5A98:D255 (talk) 21:15, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

On the other hand, tuppi- also means "tablet" in Hittite, but that seems like an odd thing to prefix to a god's name, so probably unrelated, but who knows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:448:C300:EA60:64EF:7D30:5A98:D255 (talk) 21:19, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

And apparently it means 'strike' in Luvian, which is probably a better cognate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:448:C300:EA60:64EF:7D30:5A98:D255 (talk) 21:21, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

References

Teshub is Adad

Not really. Although they were likely conflated in interactions between the Hittites and their Semitic neighbors. Tarhun ultimately derives from a Proto-Indo-European source and Adad from a Proto-Afro-Asiatic source. Two separate cultural traditions.207.237.208.153 (talk) 00:09, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Why name the article Teshub?

I mean, why is this article named Teshub instead of Tarhun? Teshub is derived from the Hitttite Tarhun, and the Hittite version of the God (this article talks about both interchangeably) is for more significant and referenced than the Hurrian version. It seems a weird priority to place.207.237.208.153 (talk) 00:06, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Some people need to learn more about the History of Hurrians it seems. It is a wide wide known thing that Hurrians pre date Hittites and even Hattians for at least a thousand years. It is also a well known fact that Hittites adopted "Tarhun" from the Hattian "Taru", which itself is adpoted from Hurrian "Teshub". That the term Tarh has it's roots in Hittite is just a hypothesis.

The fact that Indo European "Taranis, Zeus, Tarhun and even Thor are mythologicaly speaks for a common root.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/588582/Teshub

176.199.184.166 (talk) 01:06, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Ha! As if your claims about prehistoric etymologies are not mere hypotheses! →I move that this article be renamed Tarḫunnaš (the "wide wide known" Hittite deity's name, < Hittite tarḫ- "overcome", < PIE *terh₂- of roughly the same meaning, per Calvert Watkins' American Heritage Dictionary of Indo-European Roots, 3rd ed., 2011, p. 94), or at an absolute minimum, I move that the Hurrian deity be treated for the most part separately. The present name for the article is obviously just the personal preference of the 2nd IP user. IP user in Germany, the reference you give here doesn't even support your claim, even if another Britannica article might. Nevertheless, it is impossible to argue, even from these Britannica sources, that at most, the partial overlap of these different figures isn't merely yet another case of religious syncretism. The nameless "Editors of the Encyclopædia Britannica" are in no way the final arbiters of truth. Meanwhile, some form of Tarḫunnaš is definitively the most widely-recognized name of the Anatolian storm deity.--IfYouDoIfYouDon't (talk) 09:57, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Taru's puzzling inclusion and other issues

With all due respect, why is Taru discussed in an article about a Hurrian god who is only really connected to Hittite and Luwian - not Hattian - weather gods in Anatolia? Hurrians have no direct connection to Hattians (Hattic is a language isolate, Hurrian is not), Hattians were presumably absorbed by Hittites at some unknown point in time prior to the well documented Hittite imperial period, while Hurrian culture developed considerably earlier in a different area (chiefly in part of southern Turkey, through much of northern Syria and around modern Kirkuk in Iraq) and only became an influence on the Hittites well into the imperial age, according to P. Taracha due to the influence of Hurrian kingdom of Kizzuwatna on the Hittite royal court... The article generally needs work but this is the most glaring issue right now. Taru really should be an article of his own and doesn't even have a reason to be mentioned here. The fact that the article seems to largely limit Teshub to be role of an Anatolian deity when some of his main cult centers were closer to the Zagros than to Anatolia - Arrapha and Nuzi are... pretty famously Hurrian - is a problem too. As is the lack of any reference to Aleppo whatsoever. In general, the article presents an oddly Hittite-centric view of the deity.

The overview of Teshub's relation to other deities is not much better. Where is Shaushka, most closely associated with him in cult, and basically always appearing as his ally in myths? Where is any information about the kaluti, ie. circle of deities associated with him? Actually attested association with Syro-Mesopotamian (H)Adad/Ishkur? Children? The history of incorporation of Hebat into Hurrian religion?

Also, Illuyanka has nothing to do with Teshub, since it's one of the few Hittite myths about a weather god battling a monster which has local Anatolian, rather than Hurrian, origin. While in the texts translated from Hurrian - Songs of Kumarbi, LAMMA/KAL, Silver, Hedammu, Ullikummi, the sea and Eltara; the "Epic of Freeing"; etc. - Hittite weather god is really just a translation of Teshub and much of the cast keeps their Hurrian names, Illuyanka does not belong to this category. For a brief discussion of the origin of individual myths known from Hittite archives see Gary Beckman's article here.

A further issue: Teisheba's name is a cognate of Teshub's, but the two gods developed separately. Gernot Wilhelm's The Hurrians and various subsequent publications make it pretty clear that the link between Hurrians and Urartians is purely linguistic, not religious, and more recently Daniel Schwemer has argued for the two gods having completely different development histories (both in his article about Teshub and in the "Wettergott" entry he wrote for the Reallexikon). Furthermore, Kumme (the fact it's a redirect to Kummiya rn is a problem too, one was somewhere north of Assyria, the other can reasonably be placed near the coast of the Gulf of Iskenderun instead...) still functioned as a sanctuary of Teshub in the first millennium BCE as evidenced by Assyrian records (see here for a recent overview of available data).

I can bring the article to the level of these of other major Hurrian deities and other Hurrian religion articles, but it will take some time, sadly. HaniwaEnthusiast (talk) 20:00, 6 August 2022 (UTC)