Talk:Mount Pelée

Population

According to the merged in article Mount Pelee the population was 28,000. Since the exisitng article seemed authoratative I have chosen not to change its "about 25,000" , however the more accyurte the figure the better. Rich Farmbrough 23:20, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Two survivors, or one?

This article states that there were 2 survivors of the 1902 event. Martinique states that there was only one. Any idea which is correct? Joyous 19:20, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)

Some other sources list 3 survivors: Ludger Sylbaris, Leon Compere-Leandre, and Havivra Da Ifrile. --Shaddack 22:40, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Other than a small childrens' book and the internet sources, I cannot find any reference to Havivra Da Ifrile in any major source on the volcanic eruption. In La Catastrophe by Alwyn Scarth, an in-depth look at the long-term eruption, there is no mention of her. Scarth does give a great deal of evidence indicating that both Sylbaris and Compere-Leandre were survivors of the city. There were numerous survivors on the fringes of the pyroclastic flow and on ships off of Saint-Pierre - "at least 64" (Scarth, p.165).

Is there a birth or death record for Ifrile? She was 10 at the time of the eruption, and at least conscious enough to relate her story after the eruption, should there not be accounts of her AFTER the eruption? Interviews? Photos? Is there not a death record? I assume she did not die immediately after. I can find nothing indicating that she existed aside from the story of her miraculous survival. I could be wrong but it seems as if she suddenly appears (as part of this amazing story), then completely vanishes forever). Has someone ever found any record of her existence, other than the often-copied story of her survival?

Year of Map

The date given for the erruption is 1902. The legend beneath the map states that the map is from 1904. However, on the map itself the title reads "before the eruption"; hence the map must be from 1902 or earlier.

If you were to use a modern (2012) map you can still plot the 1902 information on it. It doesn't mean that because the map shows a date of 2012 and has the 1902 information on that the map is from 1902 0r earlier. As an aside the photographs of the 1902 eruption are not of the 8th May eruption but later ones. Lacroix took many photoographs of later nuees, but no-one is known to have photographed the 8th May one.The Geologist (talk) 13:05, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

A Little Editing and Additions

I added some pertinent information to the nice article that already existed. Also, a little editing (replaced the "lava flow" mentioned in regard to Morne Rouge with "pyroclastic flow" and broke down the fatality numbers to illustrate the little-known fact that several locations suffered loss, not just Morne Rouge). The Scarth book is an invaluable source, as is the Global Volcanism page.

Worst Volcanic Disaster in history?

Pelee is listed as the third worst volcanic explosion in history because Krakatoa and Tambora had more people die from other causes as a result of the erpution (i.e. tsunami, famine, etc.). However, in terms of immediate loss of life from, Pelee is in fact, the deadliest.

Technically if someone dies from starvation due to famine, I beleive that their death should not be included as a casualty of a volcanic eruption. This similar to why Katrina victims can't collect from their insurance companies: their houses were destroyed by the levee floods, not by a hurricane, so hurricane insurance was useless to them.

Since Pelee killed all of its victims directly, I propose that we elevate its status to worst volcanic disaster in history. Any thoughts?

I don't agree. I would consider either a tsunami or a lahar as much a direct consequence of an eruption as a pyroclastic flow. As far as famine, that's probably more of a grey area. Ayengar 08:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

These are slightly preposterous comparisons to make, since it is unclear in the case of many eruptions how many people exactly died (Tambora, Thera, Pompeii, to name a few). St. Pierre is the exception, because we can be quite exact in counting the death toll. Ilja Nieuwland 11:42, 13 July 2008 (GMT+1)

If any disaster causes directly or indirectly death, then the death toll reflects that. Tambora caused people in the immediate vicinity to die almost immediately, yet records indicate that there was an increase in death rates attributed to starvation across the northern hemisphere including the USA. Many European villages saw an increase in death rates which after due consideration of all expected factors the only inexplicable cause was starvation due to famine as a direct consequence of the eruption. The 2004 tsunami is attributed with the immediate death of about 300,000 people, yet it is possible that many more people died tan have been officially recognised, and how many died afterwards? The true figure will never be known. Why the insurance companies won't accept liability is a different matter and I would have thought the Federal Government would have accepted the liability.The Geologist (talk) 12:58, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Edwin Broome born 1871 Sunderland died 8 May 1902

He passed his Chief Mate's certificate in 1897. So far there are few details about his death. What is known is that he died on board a ship off Martinique when Mount Pelee erupted. Is there a list of names of those who died on the ships in the harbour?

Most active volcano

The article states that Pelée is the most active volcano in the West Indies. I believe that this is an unsupported supposition. It could be argued that Montserrat's Soufrière Hills volcano has been more active in recent years, since in the last twelve years, it has been erupting virtually continuously. I think that this should probably be corrected in the article. Ayengar 08:09, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree; although it is correct that Soufrière Hills is currently in eruption (although it seems to be winding down at this time), while Pelee currently sits quiet, the term "most active volcano" refers to number of (known or dated) historic volcanic eruptions rather than current activity alone. If we compare Soufrière Hills with Pelee on the GVP website (Soufrière Hills @ http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=1600-05=&volpage=erupt and Pelee @ http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=1600-12=&volpage=erupt ) then we find out that Pelee has been much more active over a longer period of time. RgTg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.61.80.226 (talk) 02:28, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mount Pelée/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

This article does not meet the Good article criteria and has therefore failed. Issues include:

• There is a maintenance tag in "1902 eruption"
• Unreferenced information, including:
  • Most of the points in "1902 eruption"
  • Most of the "The main eruption" section
• Unformatted references; please format according to WP:CITE/ES to include publisher and access date.

Once these issues have been resolved, please renominate the article. Thanks! Gary King (talk) 00:36, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Someone asked about pictures of the dead people. Rather ghoulish, and in any case the corpses were cremated to prevent the spread of disease, any that weren't cremated are presumably still interred or were washed out to sea.The Geologist (talk) 12:49, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

There should be a picture of the buried people, ive seen a picture of buried people ina volcano book, and it should be added, its quite interesting really, but i need an account first...75.86.223.123 (talk) 23:45, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Then why not join Wikipedia? It's just a few clicks...--Guanlong wucaii 04:15, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

mount pele is very deadly volcano. which is why i think it is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.65.254.111 (talk) 21:06, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Suggested External Link

I am a librarian at a large research library. I am following Wikipedia's policy "to encourage librarians and others in cultural heritage institutions to place links to their primary resources WP:CURATOR." I would like to add the following link under External Links: http://digitalcollections.smu.edu/cdm4/results.php?CISOOP1=exact&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=/lat&CISOBOX1=Ag1982.0026

This link is to 63 photographs from an album by W.G. Cooper, owner of a photography studio in Barbados. He photographed and/or obtained photographs of St. Pierre, Martinique and surrounding areas before and after the eruption of Mt. Pelee in May 1902. What is interesting about this album is that it contains photos dating before the eruption, which depict daily life amidst a tropical environment. Those images are followed by photos taken after the disaster, which capture the devastated landscape, the rubble of buildings and homes, and bodies of victims, some who appear to have died without an opportunity to flee.

I would appreciate your feedback before placing a link to this album. Digitaldomain (talk) 22:06, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

1929 Eruption

The article (which IIRC once featured a mention of the 1929-32 eruption) - aside from mentioning the date in the box to the right - does not describe that significant volcanic event (though not as large as the 1902 eruptions, it was a dome-building event, with pyroclastic flows, and marks the most recent activity of Pelee. I believe this should be added in the text (and for the life of me cannot understand why it was removed in the past). (see: http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=1600-12= ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.239.142.186 (talk) 12:02, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Mythical centipedes and snakes?

I'm not sure that this mention of centipedes and snakes is supported by fact. See:

'Sifting truth from Pelee's ashes: how the real causes of a famous disaster, long misunderstood, became key elements in the modern science of volcanology' (Natural History, Oct, 2002 by Steven Soter)

"In 1969, Gordon Thomas and Max Morgan-Witts published The Day the World Ended, presenting it as a nonfiction account of the disaster. They blamed the tragedy on the apathy and duplicity of the governor. Adding to the list of ignored forewarnings from the volcano, they reported that poisonous centipedes and snakes had swarmed over the outskirts of the city and that people had been dying from an epidemic triggered by volcanic pollution. All this, like much else in their book, never happened.

Thomas and Morgan-Witts loaded their narrative with melodramatic fabrications, which so appalled Jacques Petitjean Roget, then president of the Historical Society of Martinique, that in 1972 he published a detailed and scathing critique to expose the nonsense. Unfortunately, his scholarly analysis remained largely unknown outside the French West Indies. Consequently, most subsequent accounts of the tragedy have relied on Thomas and Morgan-Witts, and the mythology continues to propagate."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1134/is_8_111/ai_92284529/pg_2/?tag=content;col1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.52.105.88 (talk) 22:34, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

It was also unsourced. I've removed it. --Avenue (talk) 10:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Volcanic Spine Timeline?

In the article, it says the volcanic spine started to grow in Oct. 1902 and became unstable and collapsed in March 1903. They say this is after 11 months of growth... October to March is certainly not 11 months by anyone's count; is there something missing here? Did it continue to grow after collapsing, perhaps for another 5 or 6 months? I'm no expert on the topic so I don't want to edit it myself in case there is more to it than a miscalculation. -Aaron Bryant 72.179.8.22 (talk) 14:33, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Tempest Anderson images

Hi all, PatHadley here. I'm the Wikipedian-in-Residence at York Museums Trust (project pages). We're just getting started with a major upload of lantern slides by Tempest Anderson, a pioneering volcanologist based in York. The image category is here: Category:Images from the Tempest Anderson Collection. It needs a little tidying but already has some great images of Mount Pelee, La Soufrière (volcano) and Le-Puy-en-Velay and the surrounding areas. They were taken on trips in 1907, 1902 and 1885 respectively. There will be more than 300 images coming soon (hopefully at higher resolutions!). If you have any questions please let me know. I hope you find them useful! Cheers, PatHadley (talk) 17:02, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

"In Literature" addition.

There is a science fiction short story about a bunch of time travellers who travel to various disasters on the planet, and in due course, they travel to a volcanic eruption. Their description is very graphic and very detailed. From it, it is quite clear that the volcanic eruption in question is indeed this 1902 one. Sadly, I can no longer remember the name of the story... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.161.37.172 (talk) 11:36, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

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Is the term "non active" accurate?

I'm not sure the term "non active", currently used, is accurate. A volcano is either active, dormant, or extinct. And a volcano that has erupted in the past 100 or so years definitely qualifies as active DigitalDracula (talk) 18:51, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Error (erroneous source) in May 20 Eruption Report???

This section: "On 20 May 1902, a second eruption equal to the first one in both type and force obliterated what was left of Saint-Pierre, killing 2000 rescuers, engineers, and mariners bringing supplies to the island.[20] " ... is the one and only source that I have ever read indicating any fatalities associated with the second major eruption. If this pyroclastic flow did indeed kill 2000 rescuers, et al, it should have been mentioned in numerous sources and by the scientists who investigated this eruption. Contrast this event with the August eruption that verifiably killed around 2000 victims (see death toll by town in the Wikipedia article) that is chronicled and mentioned in numerous sources. I think this is an erroneous report by the Scientific American article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.128.4.31 (talk) 13:26, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

Article chopped in half!

Where did the rest of the article go? There used to be some good detailed information here on the main eruption and one in 1928, as well as several images. Why was all this removed? I found it both interesting and informative.