Talk:New Christian

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Yilongmo.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

the reasons for move copied from WP:RM

Support - The (proposed) New Christian (Jewish) and New Christian (Swedenborgian) are "equal" ambiguities: neither use of the term "New Christian" is particularly dominant, yet each use is quite distinct. Mac 04:00, 2005 Apr 7 (UTC)
Oppose now that New Christian (Swedenborgian) was moved to Swedenborgianism. violet/riga (t) 20:03, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Discussion

After the move, the New Christian entry ought to be a disambiguation page pointing to both New Christian (Jewish) and New Christian (Swedenborgian).

Decision

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. New Christian (Swedenborgian) was moved to Swedenborgianism and the disambiguation is therefore no longer necessary. violet/riga (t) 20:03, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Merge from Marrano

I suggest Marrano to be merged into this articles since, first, they have the same subject, and second, for being a better name as New Christian [...] were also insulted as marranos and also according to my portuguese language dictionary marrano refered to either actual Jews or Moors not to converted Jews. Nabla 15:33:00, 2005-08-10 (UTC)

The other article is far more complete. Jayjg ^(talk) 19:17, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Against. DRAE says: adj. despect. Se decía del converso que judaizaba ocultamente. U. t. c. s.; no Moriscos in Spanish. Besides, New Christians are obviously Christians, so unconverted Jews or Muslims are not included. +

cristiano nuevo 1. m. y f. Persona que se convierte a la religión cristiana y se bautiza siendo adulto. For the RAE, there is no mention of Jews or Muslims. However for cristiano viejo: m. y f. Descendiente de cristianos, sin mezcla conocida de moro, judío o gentil. +

Since "Marrano" is lifted from the Jewish Encyclopedia, I gather that in spite of the insulting intention, its usage is accepted in a historic context. +

--Error 19:35, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

OK, the insult argument became void. And apparentelly the word is used differently in Spain and in Portugal, at least it is refered differently in our dicionaries... Anyway this is reason enough for me to remove the merge tags.

I think this may be relevant to the marrano article so I'll copy this discussion to its talk page Nabla 00:18:16, 2005-08-11 (UTC)

Against, agree with @Jayjg: and @Nabla: IZAK (talk) 21:30, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge from Converso

Unlike the merge sugested above, in this case the subject of these two articles is the same, it's simply a matter of having two terms for the same thing. Also note that in both w:pt and w:es there is only one article under the title "New Christian", and "Converso" is just a redirect to "New Christian". EuTuga^msg 00:08, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Against, because Conversos were practitioners of Crypto-Judaism and, as Category:Conversos are a sub-category of Category:Crypto-Jews. IZAK (talk) 21:34, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
IZAK, I don't understand your comment, can you elaborate (without using Wikipedia categories, please, because WP:WINARS). Agree with your "because" clause; but how do you see the two terms as different? I think EuTuga has a good point, here. (Note that the definition statement in the WP:FIRSTSENTENCE of this article is suspect, or at least needs a new source.) Just like en-wiki , es-wiki also has two articles for the two terms: es:judeoconverso and es:Cristiano nuevo (the term es:converso itself being a disambig page) but nevertheless es-wiki defines the terms as synonyms. ("A partir 1492 todos los habitantes de ascendencia judía de las dos coronas eran judeoconversos, también llamados cristianos nuevos.")

Even if there is a nuance of difference in meaning in English usage of the two terms, that could still be explained in a single article. The only difference I see, is that new Christians could be converts from Judaism or Islam, whereas conversos (English) or judeoconversos (Spanish) only refers to converts from Judaism. This article only has one sentence specifically about Muslims; the rest of the article is pretty much about conversos. Why shouldn't the two articles be merged? Mathglot (talk) 17:02, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge categories?

In Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_February_24#Category:New_Christians there is a proposal for merging Category:New Christians with Category:Conversos. Feel free to join the discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:08, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]